Navigating Change in Architecture with Tom Lewith | 039

Architecture is facing some of its biggest challenges yet from

climate change to the AI revolution.

Join us as we explore how Tom Lewis is navigating these turbulent

times and transforming his practice for more sustainable future.

In this episode.

Of architecture business club, the weekly podcast for solo and small

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Now let's dig into the conversation.

Tom Lewith is a chartered architect and co founder of New Works.

Prior to New Works, he co founded and ran TDO, a leading all

services architecture studio.

The success of the practice and its work led to Tom being named in the

Architects Journal 40 Under 40 and the studio featuring in the Architecture

Foundation's New Architects 3.

Big issues affecting the industry like climate change, mental

health, AI, and the Building Safety Act demand fundamental change.

So in 2024, Tom co founded New Works to explore a new way of working based on the

principles of specialism, Collaboration, wellbeing, and sustainability.

To connect with Tom, head over to LinkedIn and I will drop a link to his LinkedIn

profile in the podcast show notes.

Tom, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, it's great to be here.

Awesome.

It's great to have you here, Tom.

I know that when you're not, uh, busy at work that you love to

be by the seaside and being in the sea, paddleboarding as well.

Tell me a little bit about that, what you get out of it.

I just think I find, um, any large body of water very relaxing.

River, lake, sea, I don't know what it is, maybe the space, the kind of, the

sense of the vastness of it all kind of makes everything feel a bit, a bit calmer.

So I like, I like to get in the sea.

Yeah, I do like to swim around the sea, a bit of paddle boardings,

but good for me, I think.

Oh, that sounds like a lot of fun.

We're about 45 minutes drive from the coast, but we are really close to a river.

And, um, my go to is kayaking.

So, I like to go down and go kayaking.

And I think any time that I'm feeling a bit stressed out or needing some

space, um, time to think things through.

It's just such a good place to go.

You know, it's very peaceful out on the water.

yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I completely agree with you on that.

Cool.

Well, we're going to talk about.

Big changes that you've recently made in your, your practice, which I mean,

ultimately it led to the closure of TDO and the launch of NewWorks.

So we're going to dig into that today, but before we get onto that,

I'd like you to tell me the story of how you got into architecture.

I think when I was younger, as a child, I remember always just being

really into making stuff, like building things, whatever it might be, uh, dens or,

uh, models, all sorts of different things.

And I think that that stayed with me.

And the idea of problem solving through making things has always

been a, always been a fascination.

So, so that, that really, I think, sort of steered me towards.

A career in architecture in the end, but there's different influences along the

way that that meant that meant that that was the ended up being the destination,

but that sense of creativity and making things was, I think, the spur for me,

Cool.

Were you a keen Lego builder by any chance in your childhood?

I think, probably was, I've got this enormous box of

Lego at my mum's house, which must have something to do with that.

So, yeah, yeah, Lego, Lego, pretty magical stuff.

Yeah, that would have been featuring highly I'd say that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm, I'm still a Lego nerd now, to be fair, but

Oh, really?

yeah, yeah.

That's, that's another story.

Every time I, um, I buy a set to do, it's, it's just another way

to kind of relax outside of work.

But my son always kind of gets in there and he wants to do it with

me, which is nice, it's nice for a bit of father son bonding time, but,

um, you know, sometimes I, I like to do the sets on my own, so I have

Yeah.

make sure he's not around.

Yeah.

Tom.

How about telling me a little bit, could you, could you briefly tell me

about your previous practice, TDO?

Tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah.

So TDO was a practice I set up with, uh, two business partners back in 2010

and we, we all three of us went to college together, went to the Bartlett

and we knew each other from, from our time there and we're in the same unit

for, for, for a good chunk of it.

And we, we just had lots of shared ideas that we kept talking about, um, in the

pub and when we meet up, met up and in the end we decided we should be, we

should probably be working together.

So we set up our, set up our practice and it's a very kind of condensed version of

that story, but that's how we started.

And, um, we, we're starting to explore some very similar ideas.

We've been taught in the same place and we had very sort of similar

thoughts about, about architecture.

So we built a forest pond house and stuff.

Our first building, which we actually built ourselves and a very small

little pavilion on the edge of a pond.

And it was, it was a really, really positive experience for us.

I think we really understood about each other and what we, what our

shared design ambitions were and what that meant architecturally.

And, and that was, that was our kind of course started sort

of was chartered from there.

Really?

We, we.

The, the, the, the fact that such a small building, we could build it ourselves,

and we were able to explore these concepts of self finished materials and

simple forms, um, and, and define in architectural language meant that we were

able to, um, advocate for that with our clients as we started to and point at it.

And, and as we started to build our portfolio, we, we were, we were

able to explore that more and more.

So, um, our, our buildings really kind of shared a, shared a language which

they still do with new works and, um.

And in doing that, we, yeah, we were in all services practice.

So we, you know, you'd approach the client, we'd, we'd pick up the project

at zero, see it all the way through to stage seven handover, which is,

you know, a very kind of normal way to run an architecture practice.

And that's, that's what we did for 14 years, built a lot of

buildings, extremely proud of.

And as you mentioned at the outset, you know, picked up some good

recognition for them along the way.

Um, and it was, it was, it was a fantastic phase of our careers.

I think, you know, we've remained extremely proud of TDO.

So really good.

Um, Really good experience for us, hard work, really hard

work, but good, you know, yeah.

You had some big successes though with TDO, which is, is fantastic.

Things did change, didn't they?

TDO, you, you took the decision to wind things down.

TDO went into liquidation.

I'm interested to know what factors, to your decision to close TDO.

Well, it's, um, I guess it was kind of, uh, conversations that Doug

and I, uh, Doug's my business partner, been having for probably 10 years,

you know, about once he'd built a few buildings and we'd been through the site

a few times, we were starting to learn a bit about, um, what it meant to run

a bit, run an architecture practice.

So, um, beyond the.

Job of being an architect and actually kind of into the space of

running as a running a business, the business of being an architect.

And there were a lot of things about the way the profession operates that

we felt were sort of suboptimal.

Um, And the were repeated frustrations that we found on on on each project, and

I think that that's something which I certainly in our sort of couple of months

since since we've made this change, we've noticed, um, is shared by a lot

of architects, and it's it's it's, uh, there are frustrations that everyone's

feeling so that those frustrations were really kind of built up over time to

a point where we made that decision, and those frustrations of various

different things, a big part of it for us is the mental health challenges that

come with running a small practice.

And the, um, well being compromises that often involves and that for

us had to do with the fact that we were stretching ourselves over

significant, um, different set of skill sets with one mind, essentially.

So, going from the initial concepts through planning, uh, presenting a

building, arguing for the design of it through building control, tender detail,

tender information on site, disputes of contractors, finishing handover, post

occupation, pitching for the next job.

That that's.

One job apparently, but it felt like actually we're sort of each of us doing

About one job was like doing seven or eight jobs and that you know is hard It's

really hard as in any walk of life if you're if your work life pulls you over

that spectrum of outputs it's exhilarating because it's is always different, but

it's also just absolutely exhausting and really hard and the um Reality of

running an architectural business is that it also comes with a lot of liability

and stress and low pay and low fees.

And it's so the difficulty of that, of carrying out that work alongside the

challenge of making that into a viable, profitable business is just so hard.

And I think that's, it's not, that wasn't unique to TDO.

And I think most of the people we've spoken to about it would agree

that's exactly their experience.

I think what made the difference for us is that in that last sort of 12 to

18 months, we had a lot of projects drifting or cancelling or not starting.

And the cash flow situation for us, because it all serves this

business, requires an awful lot of infrastructure and overheads, um, the

project scales we're operating at.

So, um, you know, it doesn't take much and a few projects get cancelled

and there'd be, you know, you start to operate at or slightly below break

even and it all starts to feel a little bit more risky than it used to.

Um, so that, that, that was occurring at the same time and, you know, kind of side

of other external factors like the, um, I think the climate crisis, especially

with a few of our clients who are, um, Really taking it as seriously as we need

to, and for us to engage in it on the same level as them, I think we need to be

making the space to do that, like a chief mental space to actually properly engage,

um, and work differently, change the way we work to, to properly address it.

Uh, there's a culture change that's demanded from the BSA as well on the

Hackett report, which I think we all need to be thinking about how we operate.

It's an absolute imperative that we change how we operate

positively to, to respond to it.

And, um, you know, AI, I think is a big threat as well to how we operate.

We need to be.

Mindful of that and embracing this incredible changes barreling

towards us and understanding how we might operate in that space.

So there's all these factors occurring at the same time, along with the kind

of more, um, sort of commercial reality of projects drifting to, to being like,

well, maybe we should actually enact these things we've been talking about for

10 years and now it might be our time.

So, so that, that was our inflection moment, really.

That's what brought us to that decision.

So there was this, there's quite a lot going on there that led to

that decision, which I imagine wasn't a very, it wasn't an easy one to make.

How, how did you feel about the demise of TDO at the time?

Um, I mean, I think there's some grief involved in that.

process, you know, like acknowledging that, that, that, you know, uh,

that this enterprise that we've put 14 years into is, is something

we're drawing, drawing a curtain on.

Um, there's still some relief as well.

I think the, the reason we did it rather than just continuing our new works is

a completely different business model with, um, significantly lower overheads.

So we're able to operate in a way that means.

The business is more viable on the same fee structure.

So from a client's perspective, nothing really has to change in that sense.

But from our perspective, we're operating it in a way that it is more sustainable.

So I think there's some relief in, um, being able to let go of something that

was just an enormous source of stress and difficulty in, in, in, um, in, in

its operation, but, but yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it was 14 years of our

careers that we, we, we built, we put into it to build it to where it got to.

So it was, it was, yeah, a lot of mixed emotions.

I can imagine.

Yeah.

But I think that sometimes we, we try things, sometimes we try things for

longer than we should, but when we can look at it as a failure, or we can look

at it as something that we've learned.

Yeah.

We learned from those things and I love that you've, you've

taken that experience and you've put it into something new, something positive.

And you've already demonstrating that the changes that you're

making are working at NewWorks.

I know just from, from speaking to yourself and your co founder Doug, that

there's, there's all sorts of benefits to your experience here, which we'll

dig into a bit more in a little bit.

So you mentioned some of the challenges there.

Some of the things that.

Contributed to the decision to close TDO.

So it'd be interesting to swing back around to that and talk a little bit about

what you, what do you see as the biggest challenges facing the industry today?

mean, I'd say the biggest challenge facing industry is, is the

culture change that needs to occur.

It's been, it's demanded from several different perspectives and

it's been demanded for decades.

You know, if you go back to Egan report, Latham report, Farmer report, they've

all asked for culture change and I'm not sure we've had it at any point.

Um, the, the, the BSA is, is equally.

Demanding of culture change.

The climate crisis fundamentally requires culture change in how we operate.

So none of these things are new.

Um, or the demands for change aren't new.

But the, um, the need to embrace it is kind of growing.

And I think it's, it's, it's something which it, yeah, that's

the challenge I think facing.

How do we change?

Because if you look at other industries, I think it's kind of widely accepted

that the construction industry is generally fairly conservative.

Archaic and backward like it's just it hasn't really changed in the last

100 years Whereas most of industries have and they're much more dynamic and

fast moving so, um, you know that that I think is Is it the the challenge is

change and I don't see For you know for a profession that's constantly trying

to convince clients that change is good and we need to be building things more

You know innovatively and more with greater design Outcomes and and so on.

Um It's surprisingly reluctant to change itself.

So I think there's a, there's an imperative to change how we operate.

And it, you know, we, we are doing it in the way that we think is the

right, um, outcome in that sense.

Like this is the right change that we think is needed, but I think it might

not be the right one and one will be the, it certainly isn't the only one.

Anyway, we can change, but I think we do as an industry need to embrace

change to address the climate crisis, just VSA to, to properly address

AI, um, rather than becoming kind of, uh, more and more entrenched

in the old ways of doing things.

And I think the old ways of doing things have been the way that everyone

does things, but partly because, um, we'll get paid so badly and fees are

so terrible that you, you kind of rely on, uh, habits and, and, uh, muscle

memory and projects to get through them in a way that you don't lose money.

But that's not.

It's not going to continue to work in the face of these sort of major challenges.

So, I don't think it is.

So, um, change is imperative.

And I think changing, so change is the culture, culture

change is the big challenge.

And I think the, um, the thinking about ways to facilitate more

sustainable fee income as architecture, as an architecture business is, is

the kind of key to that solution.

And that's, that's one of the reasons why we think NewWorks is, is a, our

structure is, um, is a, is one that can.

Work with that because we're we're focusing much more on what we're good

at and we can charge properly for that And then we'll bring people in around

us who are really good at their parts as well And I think that that is the kind

of for us That's the key to how we can all operate in a much more sustainable

and financially sustainable way

That's interesting.

That, that leads nicely onto the next question that I was going to ask.

You've mentioned a few of some of those big challenges facing the industry.

You've mentioned about climate change and about mental, a mental health

crisis in architecture, which is being discussed a lot and the advent of AI,

the changes with the building safety act.

So there's all sorts of things going on there.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on how small practice owners can

attempt to overcome these challenges.

You mentioned something there, which was interesting about ensuring that

the business is financially sustainable

Yeah.

your financial health of the business is in a better position.

So how do you feel that that will allow practices to better deal

with these industry challenges?

Yes.

Good question.

So I think the, the answer is probably fairly nuanced in the sense that as

architects, we're all slightly different and we've got different business

models and different client bases.

And, um, we're trying to see different projects.

And I think where our response relates to our approach.

Project type, sector, and, um, and client base.

So I think our feeling is that the, the solution or the need for change

in the way that we are advocating for it exists outside of the sort

of smallest and largest practices.

I think if you're a very large practice, um, you're in a position

to resource things appropriately with different, different teams,

according to the project and so on.

If you're a much smaller practice and you're working on small scale

domestic projects, then the wealth of knowledge you need to be able to do

that job is kind of proportionate with the size of your practice already.

So I think that those two ends of the spectrum aren't necessarily

where we're, where we're looking at with, with what we're doing.

Um, but the way that we think, uh, everyone's sort of inside that

bracket, um, can, could, can sort of like change, I suppose, is to

think more about specializing.

And collaborating.

So we feel that if you go back to the very start, we asked you, what was

the reason we got into architecture?

I think there's kind of wise about what we're doing.

Why are you doing this?

Where did it come from?

It's quite an important thing to reflect on and, and come back to in,

in, in how we run our businesses.

So what is it we're doing?

Why are we interested in this?

And then our, where we got to that was thinking, what about if, what

did we make that our business?

Just this, this thing, which we really love, which for us is the

first engagement with client.

And the project through to sort of somewhere just after planning some

sort of early stages of detail design.

So we're, we're building is crystallized in a conceptually that for us is

just an enormously exciting period.

And we just love it.

We thrive off that and we add huge value for our clients.

And then.

We know that there's practices beyond that in the later stages

who get equally excited as us in the early stage, in the late stage.

And in our experiences of collaborating those businesses, we just feel

like that, that what this is, what an amazing outcome this is.

We all feel really excited about what we're doing.

We're all sharing ideas.

We're all kind of building much better buildings as a result.

Our clients Delighted with this situation.

They've got everyone who's, who's got exactly the right skills in the

right places and the, the, the title of the, of architect is shared.

It's not one that's owned by one person or one company.

And I think, I think that's where we feel, um, the opportunity to overcome

these challenges exists for small, medium sized practices, because there's,

there's so much areas, as we said at the start, there's so much in being

an architect from start to finish.

The, you know, if you just, if you had to say, that's okay, can you cut it up

and just have the bit you like that?

Wouldn't we all just, that sounds amazing.

We all do that.

And then they kind of come together and, uh, you know, you

all get excited about our parts.

And so, so I think where, and then obviously it's much easier to, to,

well, we feel it's much easier to run a business when you're operating like

that, regardless of which part of the project you're doing, because you're

able to be really more focused in it.

And as long as you're open at the same time and collaborative

in your outputs, then.

The team can operate in a much better way.

And we're using the part of our brain, which we love using and not the part,

which, which feels like it's kind of against the grain a little bit more.

And that means that we could be, we can work deeper.

We could be more productive.

We can be happier.

And all these things are a way of also you actually running a business is

more profitable and operates better.

So that, that for us, it feels like the idea of specializing, collaborating.

When you really dig into it has all these potential benefits that go from the,

the, the, the quality of the business, the sustainability, commercially help

mental health and wellbeing and, and just sort of getting back into loving what

we're doing and providing better values and outcomes for our, for our clients.

And then actually be able to also engage with all these crises that we talked about

with the climate crisis change of AI.

So that, that, that for us, I think is, since we've done this a couple months

ago, we've, we've, we've been kind of exploring the edges of all this,

um, we've really started to feel like that it, what we're doing here with

specializing, collaborating can actually address an awful lot of these problems.

It's not like a golden silver bullet to sort of solve everything, but it is, um.

It is a very different way of doing things.

It's not, and I say it's very different, it's very different mentally.

It feels very different.

We're much happier, much calmer, we're much better at what we're doing.

But we're not, um, actually doing anything fundamentally different

to what we all do every day.

We're just doing it, we're just doing it and, um, just saying we're not going to

do this over here, which is quite possible on a project, a random project anyway.

It's just that we're sort of openly saying it from the outset and we're

going to collaborate and we're going to, you know, work together.

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Now, back to the show.

Yeah, I think, I think this is something that it's refreshing for from a point

of view of someone within architecture.

In truth, it's probably not that unusual in other industries.

I know a lot of Business experts talk about staying in your zone of genius,

or another thing I've heard people talk about is, um, stick to what

you do best and delegate the rest.

You know, these are quite common things that you hear

some of the gurus talk about.

Well, it's in architecture.

We are seemingly expected or traditionally expected that we are generalists, that

we have to know a little bit about everything and there's becoming more and

more things that we need to know about to the point where you have to question

whether that is sustainable for practice of a certain size to be able to keep on

top of everything and to be able to do.

Do everything at the best and chances are that you're not going to enjoy all of it.

If you are doing all those different things, like you, there's going to be

a lot of it that you're like, Oh, well, this part of the role I really shine at.

And I, I feel really fulfilled from doing it, but all this other

stuff, like I'm not enjoying it, but my client expects me to do it.

So

I completely agree with that.

And I think there's a, there's a, um, part, part of the issue here is that

we haven't changed as a profession.

So when you say that, you know, other professions have kind of

done this, Yeah, definitely.

And in fact, we can apply that to all sorts of different aspects of

architecture and how we operate as a profession that we haven't really moved.

But you don't have to do anything particularly radical to be doing

something completely different because it's, it's just, everyone's

operating in this broadly the same way.

Uh, and I don't, and I don't think we are doing anything particularly different.

I think we're doing, we're sort of, we think this works because we have worked

like this before on various projects, but we're just saying that structure works

so well, we should continue to do it.

Um, so I think, I think that the, the.

Yeah, the profession really could do with looking at other industries and seeing

how, how, um, how they've operated.

And that's really interesting to hear what you say about, yeah, Gary

is saying is that, you know, do what you're good at and focus on your,

your, your kind of your strengths.

I mean, it is, it sounds pretty straightforward stuff.

And I think, but I think, yeah, it's just, it's just a, there's an inertia that

comes with running architecture practices, which I think actually just comes from

the fact that it's really hard to do it.

It's really hard to actually make it.

An architecture pack is sufficiently profitable to exist, and there's not

really this, when you're operating on that, there's not really the

space to change very dramatically.

So, um, yeah, I think I'd like to think that we can try it.

And if it works, we're confident and really excited about it.

Um, about this, this structure, and if it works, and maybe it's one that is a

lower risk thing to try for others, you know, because it's, you know, you can

see if it works or not, and then go from

Yeah.

I think, um, one of the things that we, it's worth sharing really is just

to say, like, You know, if you, if someone's listening to this and they

need permission, you do feel like they need permission to do this, like

you don't have to run your practice exactly the same as everybody else.

And interestingly, what I've seen is that some of the, the practices that are doing

things or operating very differently, there's a few disruptors out there in the

industry that are doing things completely different to how the traditional ways.

And.

Actually, when you look at the, I've spoken to some of the leaders of these

practices, and often they're not, there's a couple that spring to mind

in particular that some of the founders are not from architecture, they're

coming at it from a completely different viewpoint with an absolute fresh pair

of eyes, with none of the preconceived ideas about how Oh, well, this is how

a traditional practice should be run.

Like, as long as you're pleasing and delighting your clients and you're

fulfilling all the legal obligations that are required and you're delivering

amazing buildings, like, does it matter if you, you know, if your business

is a little bit unconventional?

Yeah.

Well, it has to.

No, of course not.

And I think it has to, you have to have a USP otherwise you're just relying on,

um, I don't know, relying on just sort of good luck at some extent or just being

in the right place at the right time.

But if you think, if you, if you, I think what we've found, uh, not just

with new works, but we're at CDA as well, that there's real power in saying no.

So if you, if you're, um, if you're really, if you know you're

really, um, about something.

If you've managed to distill down, which is actually, I think the hard part,

like working out what it is that you really, really, really are kind of, um,

passionate about, but if you can get to the point where you figured that out,

which is like half the doc task, then really focusing on that and attacking

that space and going for it and finding, getting to a network, everyone's work

comes from the network, like get into network and find out where, where

those opportunities lie for one thing.

And then the other thing, which I honestly I didn't believe until

I started to Realize it was, it's true is saying no to things.

If it's not the right, if it's not aligned with this unique position that you're

taking as a business, if you're, if you're doing something slightly different

to everyone around you, half of the deal there is saying no to stuff, which

doesn't fit that particular business plan.

that's hard, Yeah.

it's, if your pipeline of, of inquiries isn't filled and flowing

with new inquiries every month, it can be really hard to say no.

But if you, like, if you're saying yes to one opportunity, you're, you're saying no,

by default, you're saying no to another.

And if you say yes to too many clients and projects that aren't an ideal

fit, that because The nature of our industry, a lot of business does come

through referrals and past projects.

You can end up there and the referrals that start coming in are

bad, more of the bad fit clients.

And it's like, Oh, we've got another inquiry for another one of

those projects that we don't want.

Why is this

Exactly.

Exactly.

I did.

But the flip side of that coin is when you start saying no to things, you

define yourself in the positive, even though it's a negative communication,

the positive aspect of it is you're not just gonna say, no, go away and walk off.

You're obviously going to say, no, I don't want to, I'm not going to, I'm not doing

that work right now because, um, we're really focused on this, whatever this is.

And then that creates advert for your, yeah.

Services in that space, because that person then knows what it is.

You're really, you must be really good at that.

If that's what you, if that's all you're doing.

And then when they're having a conversation with somebody who you don't

know, you never met, and you're not part of that conversation, but they have that

conversation, that person, they're like, Oh, you know, he's really good for that.

As this architect, he's just as, just as that, they must be really good at that.

And then it takes time obviously to get out.

But once it starts going back, you realize that having said no to certain

things means that you really do mean it when you are doing this thing over

here and it can, it can generate that.

that pipeline in those inquiries.

And then we know you're in that space.

And that, that really, I think it requires saying no to things as well.

Uh, so true, actually something that you've just touched

upon now that there's, there's actually a real opportunity that when you

get an inquiry, that is a bad fit.

When you decide it's not for you, you say no, that if you're still able to, um, to

direct them somewhere else or to connect them or introduce them to another praxis,

that, that, that little deed, that good deed that you've done, they remember that.

I've actually had instances when I was, um, practicing in

architecture that I had inquiries.

What the people.

left me testimonials, like they've left my business reviews and they weren't even a

client and they've left the review because they're so happy that I introduced them

to another architect or another practice.

And they remember that it's, it's incredible really,

when you think about it.

No, absolutely.

Right.

And I think everything is.

Ultimately your network is your kind of your career and if you're if what you're

doing is strengthening that network by making those introductions So I can't

do it I know somebody's perfect for over here and the reason I can't do

it is because I'm really into this and that All of these communications are

what will ultimately bear fruit and the goodwill that's being kind of expressed is

something in the end Hopefully will come back and that's all yeah That's all just

I feel like it's just if you can be nice to everyone around you then it kind of

hopefully in the end It kind of pays off.

Absolutely.

Tom, let's have a talk then about NewWorks.

So you've recently launched the practice.

Could you give us a little bit of a short run through of some of the

differences between TDO and NewWorks.

So, so you've started a new practice and The way that it works in a day

to day way is very different to TDO.

So could you share some of the things that are different about NewWorks?

of course.

So, uh, the first thing to say is the architecture is largely the same.

So what we were great at TGO, we're great at New Works.

That's our kind of thing.

Um, the, what's different is there's two, two things.

One is the way that we operate.

So it's the, it's the, The business of architecture, how

do we go about being architects?

That's fundamentally different.

And what we're focusing on is this idea of specialization,

specializing and collaborating.

So we are very strong at stage zero to three, three plus, and we think

there are fantastic delivery partners that we know and we love who are

better at later stages, and we think the title of the architect should be

shared between us from start to finish.

And that means that we can create space to be much more creative by being focused

on the bits we're really good at, and we can be better collaborators as a result of

working with our delivery partners early on and staying involved later on as well.

So, so that that's operationally how it differs fundamentally.

Um, that extends to not just delivery, but other collaborators.

It's like we're, we're kind of getting our heads up here and thinking, well,

everyone's got different strengths.

We've got different, whether that's in.

I mean, there's architectures, just a myriad of opportunities and

specialisms, and there's an opportunity to collaborate in any project.

So, so that, that, that's kind of how we feel we need to

operate on a day to day level.

That translates to, um, this idea that we need to create space to be creative.

Or MakeSpace be creative translates to, to our sort of daily working rhythm them.

So we, um, we start the day at 10, so we'll have an hour before we start

doing something that's not work.

Just to, just to kind of be present and, uh, be, be happier.

And that might be some physical or men sex.

It's something that's something that brings us in and keep, and it means that

when we sit down and start work, it's not, we're not kind of panicked and rushed.

We're kind of in the right head space.

And then, uh, we have 10 tool two, which is.

I'll kind of period where we're doing deep work.

So we're not, we're not having, we don't have any emails on, you know, the phones

that we're just working in that period.

And that, that four hours, uh, just allows us to kind of sink

into the work and really kind of get into it and be productive.

And I mean, a TDO or any of my previous, previous sort of, um, jobs, I just

said four hours of actual work was.

Great win for the day.

You know, that's an awful lot of, of, of consistent amount of works

was coming out on a daily basis.

So, so we feel that if we just make that space and say, we're not doing

emails because emails are very disruptive and stop you doing what

you're doing at any given moment.

And there's no warning or forecast as to what that's

going to be at any given moment.

Then we can really get a lot done.

And then the second half of the day.

We've done our work and we can then be present for everyone else

and our email exchanges and our correspondence and meetings and phone

calls and so on can all occur then.

So, so that's how we split the day up and then we try and finish

it, try and finish at five.

And we think that we can condense the day like that.

We used to work nine to six, now I think ten to five.

But if we are operating in a very much more focused way where we're deliberate

about what we're doing, that we can keep to those hours and then that space.

It doesn't just create space for creativity, it creates sort of like

space for our own well being and mental health and our families and our lives

outside architecture, which I think is often, uh, you know, um, often

suffers as a result of the job royalty.

So, so those are the, those are, that's the rhythm that we've, we've

implemented and the sort of priorities that we've implemented to practice.

And, um, yeah, it's been going really well to be honest.

It's been, it's been a really positive change for us.

I think we've kind of noticed it already.

So there's been some significant noticeable benefits.

By making these changes.

Yes.

Yeah, definitely.

I think the, the, the, you know, the job of being an architect comes with

an awful lot of anxiety and pressure.

And, um, the more unstructured the day is, the more it lends itself to anxiety.

I think like the, the, the, it's not uncommon.

I don't think to get, it wasn't uncommon for me and I don't think

it's uncommon for many people to get at the end of the day and think I've

only just started what I sat down to do at nine o'clock And it's, it's been

a complete completely chaotic day.

You know, I feel he felt like all the plates are still spinning, but you

haven't been incredibly productive and probably all the other people

in email chains feel the same.

So, um, I, you know, I think the unfortunate reality is a lot of

that has to do with how, how.

Construction industry operates.

So when buildings are getting built, it can be a bit like that.

Um, and that's also why we think there's a particular skill set

associated with delivery, but the really, really good delivery practices

are very, very good at what they do.

And they have the systems in place to, to actually kind of manage that

process more, more effectively and with less anxiety and with more

productivity and more profitably.

We can operate in the earliest stages as the lead.

And do that more possibly and effectively and with a happier mental state.

And we think we can do that, especially if we implement this sort of, um,

structure to the day and it has, yeah, it has, it has been, it's just like,

everything feels calmer, more deliberate, and we're able to talk more creatively

about what we're doing and it's, yeah, it's been, it's been really positive.

Yeah, definitely.

Sounds fantastic.

I think the structure to the day, this, um, trying to think the

name of the essay was the maker's schedule versus manager's schedule.

I think was the famous essay about it.

There were, um, essentially that they're having that big chunk of time at the

beginning of the day, where typically kind of like half a day for creative

work, for deep work, for the work that.

You'd need a big chunk of time to get into it, to get traction and interruptions can

just, just absolutely kill your attention and concentration on those tasks.

Whereas the, the manager's schedule and the rest of the day is typically

like half hour, one hour blocks.

It's great for meetings, for checking your email, for

firefighting, um, triage type work.

But the two, the, the type of, um, amount of time and that you need

is, it's very different for both.

Because it's very different type of work.

So actually having it, you're setting your stall out saying that this

part of the day is just for this type of work and this other part of

the day is for all that other stuff and your time blocking that out.

And I think it's a great idea.

It's a really effective way to, to be well, to manage your time better and to

be more effective and, and to retain some sanity at the end of the working week.

yeah, it's actually, it's interesting what I think, I think when

you mentioned before about like, you know, that not an awful lot of this

is that different in other industries.

And I think that, um, that structure of the working day is probably not that

different when you, not necessarily in other industries, but when you go

back in time, if you go back to the time, the era before emails, when we

send each other letters, I'd imagine, I don't know, because I wasn't running a

practice at that point, but I can imagine you'd have a part of the day where you

just did your drawings and then a part of the day where you sat there Right.

Responses.

So the emails, like the kind of way that are the digital revolution and how we work

isn't necessarily altogether positive.

Like it can have, I think it's have, it can have these effects, which are

actually a kind of perhaps a bit unseen that we're, we're, we're really available.

We're kind of way more available than we probably should be.

If we're going to be productive.

Yeah, I think that we as.

As business owners that we, because of that, we have to try and set some

boundaries like you've been doing with new works, otherwise, like everybody

else will just grab your attention at any moment is right down to the notifications

on your phone and the messages that are coming in from every different way that

people can communicate with us now.

I, when I started out in the mid nineties, I worked as a trainee in

a local architect's practice and.

It was very different then, like most of the day was spent drawing and in

my case in the print room, taking lots of copies of drawings when I started

out and it was a certain point of the day when there was some time where

most people would be Writing, writing letters, if there's some letters that

needed to go out, we needed to get it done before five to catch the post.

So towards the end of the day, people would then get, get the letters done

because they've been concentrating on doing the project work beforehand.

And then that was it, like, you know, it would get sent out.

I think we did have email in the office and there was like one computer to

begin with and it was just checked like.

Once or twice a day and and

Even I was probably printed out.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

They were printed out put in paper files in the filing cabinet and it was

treated very much like I guess how it was originally used, like electronic mail,

it used to come in and that way and, and something's changed over the last couple

of decades where the way that people use it is totally different and you're right,

it's, it's not necessarily a good thing.

So it's great that you've been setting some good boundaries.

So Tom, um, in the spirit of wrapping things up.

What would be the main thing that you'd like everybody to

take away from this conversation?

I well, I think I everyone's got in in architecture.

I think if we've got it most people you meet I don't know any architects have been

into architecture without feeling really passionate about it And I think that that

that for me was was a really a big moment for us and actually as an interesting

There's a TV series that Barack Obama's done on Netflix about work and he was

interviewed about it and he's asked what?

What advice would you give to young people today going into work and

obviously really uncertain space as young younger people and his

answer I think really resonated me.

He said like you need to worry less about Why less about what you want to

be and more about what you want to do.

So about the title You know the job title architect and more about what

you want to do What is it every day that you really want to do?

It makes you feel really passionate and happy and his message is, if you

do that, if you focus on what you love and you're really passionate and

what you're really passionate about, everything else will fall into place.

You know, you're the, the, what you want to achieve with your career will happen

because the people around you, you'll be, people gravitate to you because

you're really passionate about it.

You're excited about it.

You're really good at it.

And you can, you're a good part of someone else's jigsaw as a consequence.

So I think that, that would be, I think what, what, what, you know, I'd like to

think we people can take away is, is.

The idea that we're, we're kind of promoting about specializing really

is about getting into doing what you're really passionate about.

And as architects, we all got into architecture because we're passionate

about, about it on some level.

So I think that, that for me would be the message.

I love that.

Thanks for sharing that, Tom.

Was there anything else you wanted to add that we haven't already

covered in the conversation?

No, I think, I think, you know, I would say The one thing I think

where I'm really keen and we're really keen is to communicate is that, um,

the, uh, the architecture is so hard and architects are, I think, you know,

um, generally all architects are just, it's just, just do an incredible job

and in the very difficult circumstances, and it's really hard to operate a

business in this, in this profession.

So we don't, we, I really hope we don't come across as, um, You know,

critical of, of, of how architectures, how architects work on the, on

the, on the day to day basis.

Um, we, we just feel really, um, passionately that we should all be

able to operate in a, in a way that's more sustainable for, for everyone.

And I hope it works and I hope others can, can do it as well.

But I feel nothing but the deepest respect and, um, admiration for

all of our, all of our peers.

Thanks, Tom.

I'm sure it's going to be really successful.

So I wish you and the team at NewWorks every success in the future.

Tom, there's one question that I want to ask.

It's nothing to do with the main topic, but I love to travel

and to discover new places.

And I was just wondering if you could tell me about one of your favorite

places and what you love about it.

So it could be anywhere like near or far.

Okay.

Yeah.

Deal.

I, I, I thought you were asking, um, I've done a lot of traveling.

Honestly, I have, but this just sounds like I haven't.

But the one place that came straight to mind is, is, uh, this water indoor

water park called Splashdown and pool.

And it's, um, my kids absolutely like, I, I, we go, we go there when

we drive past and I went there, it's sort of like a early nineties, Quite

sort of tired, um, indoor water park.

So which you wouldn't look twice at, I suppose, if you drove past.

But it was just a place of so much happiness for me growing up.

And it brings me a lot of happiness.

My kids really love it.

And so when we go there, we always really enjoy it.

So that, that for me is kind of like a, Perhaps a bit of an unusual happy

place, but it's a really, it's a really positive, um, place for me that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

like a lot of fun.

My, uh, my 12 year old son would absolutely love that.

So if we're ever in that part of the world, then we'll, we'll

definitely go and check it out.

Check it out in pool, Mississippi drifter.

Best ride.

Yeah.

Thanks a lot, Tom.

Could you please just remind everybody where is the best

place to connect with you online?

Yeah.

LinkedIn is good.

Um, my name's, uh, I think I'm the only Tom Neurath about, so you

should be easy to find, uh, or, or New Works, our website, new works.

net.

Um, both.

They're both there, but, um, yeah, I'm really, really keen to hear from

anyone, everyone really, you know, in, in the, in the industry who feels like

they've got, um, something they're passionate about and their specialism.

And we're, we're keen to build that network so we can collaborate

more and build teams together.

So I'm, I'm always really keen to hear from, from everyone.

Awesome.

Well, I'll make sure that I put a link to the New Works website and your

LinkedIn profile in the show notes.

Okay.

Tom, thank you ever so much.

Thank you, John.

Great to, great to be on here and I really appreciate you giving me

the opportunity.

Next time I chat with Ian Anderson, gray about why

you should be creating videos and how you can produce them quicker.

Using AI tools.

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