Why You Need Better Systems (Not More Tools!) with Layla Pomper | 096

Layla Pomper:00:00:02

We know only 17% of small teams actually record what they do ever. And the other 83% of small teams out there, the majority of folks that you and I know. They're memorizing what needs to be done for every client order, to prepare for taxes, to pay for payroll. These are critical business functions that we're just carrying around in our brain, and then we're surprised if we feel stressed or overwhelmed. Our brains are not meant to store all this information.

Jon Clayton:00:00:32

Welcome to Architecture Business Club, the show that helps you build a better business in architecture so you can enjoy more freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment. If you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode. Layla Pomper is the CEO of process driven and the go-to expert on systemizing small team operations. Since 2018, Layla has been using software process documentation and storytelling to guide over 2,100 clients and 119,000 and counting YouTube subscribers to enjoy. The process so they can delegate, grow, or simply relax. Creator of the Systemization Snapshot, an operations audit and report that has benchmarks the operations of hundreds of teams. Layla's mission is to turn build your business systems into a game that small teams can win in any industry. To get your free operations audit and identify your team's biggest bottleneck in minutes, head over to process driven.co/. John, that's JON dash Clayton, or click the link in the show notes and take a systemization snapshot today. Layla, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Layla Pomper:00:01:54

Thanks so much for having me, John.

Jon Clayton:00:01:56

It's a pleasure to have you here. I've been a fan of yours actually lately for quite some time. A long time subscriber to your YouTube channel, but I actually had the pleasure of meeting you in person at the Atomic and Conference in Newcastle, in the UK this year which was absolutely fantastic event and obviously great to meet you as well. And that's resulted in us being able to have this conversation together today. So I'm so excited about this. Really interested to chat with you.

Layla Pomper:00:02:23

It's a small internet.

Jon Clayton:00:02:24

It is, it is, One of the, the interesting things you told me actually when we met in person was that you'd had some past experience in the. Construction industry in and around architecture. You previously worked as an operations manager for a custom carpentry business. I was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about that role and how that then led to launching process driven and becoming a content creator with your YouTube channel.

Layla Pomper:00:02:56

Yeah, it, it definitely was not a linear journey. The story behind that one is my husband actually. So my husband is a woodworker. He's a timber framer by trade. And so that carpentry business is one that I founded with him, uh, where he was doing, you know, full service remodels and, you know, all sorts of different custom woodworking projects. And I was kind of the right hand person organizing all of it behind the scenes. And. That was not a very intentional career choice. It was kind of this transition that just sort of happened as anyone who's the spouse of an entrepreneur knows when one person goes into the journey, you're both kind of going into the journey. And I learned a lot through that. I think there was this one formative moment, because this was the first business I'd really been a part of, starting of trying to figure out how to write an invoice. It's the simplest thing now looking back on it. But I remember sitting down and figuring and trying to figure out, well, how do we. Bid this job, it was a, a kitchen remodel, a full kitchen remodel, and we had to do the designs and the SketchUp renderings and all this other stuff. And I, for the life of me, could not figure out, well, what do you do? Do you break down all the materials? Do you just do job costing? Going through this question, I realized, how is it whatever year it was at the time, let's say 2018, how is it 2018? And we still don't have. Kind of a standard playbook on how these basic business systems actually work. Why is this still so hard? Um, so fast forward in my own business here, process driven. When I first got into it, my first niche became, uh, tradesmen and people in the building industry because that's what I had learned working with him. And it kind of just set me on this path because trades, it's one of the oldest professions. And yet even in that space, there is so much that we are just winging it because we've never written down how it happens and we don't give that information to new businesses when they start.

Jon Clayton:00:04:58

That's so true, and I think there's so many business owners out there that when they start their business that, as you say that there, there wasn't that kind of systems playbook of this, all this other stuff that often you would know your craft or your profession know how to do that. But then when it came to all of the business side of things, all of those systems in the background that often it was winging it, as you say. Um. That was my experience for sure when I started out in architecture, um, long time ago. So, um, yeah if you, if you're listening to this right now, you know, and, and feeling a bit that way that you've maybe been winging it. Currently or in the past, then you are absolutely not alone because it is so commonplace out there. But that's something that we are gonna help you with today. So lay this here to help you with. So, um, we are gonna talk about why you need better systems and not, not more tools. Which is often the go-to for, for many of us. So the architecture firm owners can move past the shiny software and that shiny object syndrome and focus on building those foundational workflows that actually stick. So, first place I wanted to start, regarding tools and software really. So I guess the big myth that, I mean, do you think people often believe that buying more software or having more tools is gonna be the thing that fixes their business problems?

Layla Pomper:00:06:24

Uh, yeah, across the board. And you know, I think it's very easy to say How dare we as small business owners not know better and know that software won't fix all of our problems. But kind of like what you said at the opening here, no one gave us a policy binder of saying, Hey, here's how you do these basic things. Here's how you send a po. Here's how you order materials. Here's how you, you know, no one tells us that. But you know what they do tell us. Well, there is a multimillion dollar industry, maybe even greater than that, of software companies with large marketing budgets that are backed by venture venture firms who are spending their entire day trying to convince you that if you want to grow your business, you just need to use our suite of tools. And I think because there's a lot of money to be made in software and maybe not. Not as much in the, hey, get your foundational stuff right. I think a lot of small business owners, you know, regardless of industry, we are being served up a bunch of, of marketing, you know, made up make believe, let's call it that marketing, make believe, and it's swaying us to think, ah, software will solve all of our problems. But I don't think it's our fault for believing that. I think it's just a byproduct of where the money is in the marketplace.

Jon Clayton:00:07:43

That's really interesting, so. You think that there, we've got these businesses out there, these corporations that are well backed, that are developing lots and lots of software tools. More and more software tools every single day are coming out and all of them are promising to solve our business problems. You just need to sign up for this shiny new tool for X amount of dollars. Or pounds per month and it's gonna make your life so much easier. And then we wonder why after signing up for all these different tools that actually things don't really improve so much. but from my, I can speak from my own experience with that, that I am the classic guy that signs up for all of these new fancy tools and think, oh, new tool. That sounds exciting. I'll give that a try. And then I've. Fallen out of love with so many of them because there was other things that, um, still weren't working. There was other systems that weren't in place first.

Layla Pomper:00:08:40

And, and it's almost like, I think what we need to separate, if we wanna reeducate the market here is that tools are just pre-made functionality. It's pre-made components for your design, if you think of it that way. But at the end of the day. The way you do things, your workflow is absolutely independent of any software. The way you work is something you are deciding for yourself. And I think the mistake that happens is when we don't decide how we wanna work before we shop for software, we end up just letting the software dictate to us how should we work the features It develops the choices of some random product manager who's fresh outta college that determines how we run our business. And then we're surprised when what that 22-year-old decided to create as a feature doesn't suit what we wanna have in our business. And it's easy to then point blame And software hop, we've seen so many of our clients, they go from one project management tool to the other. They go from Asana to clickup to Trello, thinking every tool's the problem when in reality, when you're. Choosing the default settings, it doesn't matter which tool you have, they're never really gonna work because your process should endure long beyond any given software.

Jon Clayton:00:09:56

That's so interesting. I think that. That leads nicely. Actually, I would, uh, onto the next question I was gonna ask so we can kind of dig into this a little bit more, I think about, well, why so many teams do do that, that they build the process around what the software, what their software can do, rather than starting with what they actually need. So yeah, I think we could probably talk about that a little bit more actually, 'cause it's such an important point and. Again, I've had firsthand experience of that myself where I've, I've, chosen tools and then try to change my process to try and fit the tool. Um, so it sounds like that's perhaps not the best way that we should be doing things.

Layla Pomper:00:10:41

No, but it's the most common, and I think the question of why is that happening? Well, one, because you are already paying for the subscription. Let's get our money's worth, right? We've got that sunk cost, which marketers rely on, but two, because. Software companies often are the only ones even bringing up the conversation of workflows in any given environment. And that's really the problem. When you have no other choices and you're like, oh, this tool says I should do it this way. I don't have any other alternatives to consider. Sure, I'll do that. I think if we wanna change this conversation, you know, communities like Architecture Business Club, you know, talk to other people in this community about how they do things. All of a sudden, every conversation you have will reveal new workflows, new ways of working, and you can then choose the one that's best for you. I think we compete with the software company's bias by actually talking about process in our business communities, like make it a flow chart. Just make it part of conversation. What do you do when you get a new lead inquiry? What do you do with that? Let's compare that to what this other person does. When we start giving people alternatives, it's a lot easier to be creative and we'll stop falling prey to the, oh, well, the software says I have to do this, so I'm gonna do it. And you'll be a lot better positioned to stand out against your competitors when you do something that's a little bit different than what the software company already subscribes to thousands of other users.

Jon Clayton:00:12:09

I love that, that idea of. Sharing, sharing your processes, your process, how you work with other people, and learning from them and how they do things. Because often we just don't know what we don't know, and we could have other people out there in the same industry that could be doing. Things a very different way to the way that we are doing them and some, some cases that might be for the better. In other instances, maybe you've got something that, a workflow that you've developed that works really well that would actually help others. So there's definitely a lot of benefits for everyone if we can be more open to sharing what we know and kind of sharing what's been working for us and maybe what we've tried that didn't work.

Layla Pomper:00:12:52

Right, and I would go beyond just your industry. I think in communities like this one. You've got so much value of talking with other architects, but you can also learn from your hairdresser, your plumber, your stealing, you know, the follow-up process that a real estate agent uses. And using that in your architecture business will suddenly make you the most, uh, sales enthusiastic, uh, architect out there. If you copy the way dentists book appointments before you leave the office and you use that in your architecture business, you'll find that you're able to book calls more efficiently. You can steal from other industries just as well as your own. But I think in all cases, we need to start making this part of our conversation when we're talking with other entrepreneurs.

Jon Clayton:00:13:36

Mm. Oh, that's so true. There's so much that we can learn from other industries as well. It's one of the reasons on this show that we try to bring in people from outside of architecture rather than us just. Being in this echo chamber where we're only speaking to architects and architectural designers because there's so much value and stuff that we can learn from people that are outside of it, that they can see it through a different lens and perhaps see things in a different way than, than we see it. Because we can be so close to our work, and as you say, there could be. You know, a really great way that, uh, you mentioned about dentists and the way that they're booking the follow up appointments. Such a great idea, and it's something that's commonplace and standards in that industry, but that isn't something that people use in architecture. Why not?

Layla Pomper:00:14:27

revolutionary.

Jon Clayton:00:14:28

Yeah. Yeah. Such a great idea. So, le how do you, how, how do you explain the difference then between having good systems and just having good tools? What are your thoughts on that?

Layla Pomper:00:14:40

I think both can go hand in hand. I think. If you have good systems, you are future-proofed. And I wanted define that. 'cause I think system is one of those words that people, they hear a lot, but I don't think we really know what it means. When I say system. I mean your method of doing things, the combination of a workflow, meaning the steps we follow. The people involved, the templates, we might use the software. All of those things working together is like your ecosystem or your system, uh, for a given area of business, like your client retention system, your fulfillment system, and so on. I think if you dial that in, you steal things from dentists, you steal things from real estate agents. You steal things from the plumber who takes photos of every job before they finish it, so they have proof of work. I mean, when you start stealing these little practices and put them all together. You can take that into any software under the sun. If we flip it and we build our business around a software we have, you know, the practice management apps or whatever else it might be. You're really locked in. And when the server is down, when they get bought out, when they make a decision about what should happen, that is at odds with how your business actually works. You have to just reinvent everything overnight. And if your system is not independent of that risk, you are really building on a shaky foundation. My belief is really to make sure that the way you're designing your business to operate, the way day-to-day things happen really serves the customer, the employee, and the owners in that order. Software companies aren't on that list. We don't have to worry about serving our vendors.

Jon Clayton:00:16:17

Okay. So just to swing back to what you started saying there about systems in terms of like defining what this actually is for the listeners, then. This could be as simple as recording down the steps in a process. We're not necessarily talking about building out a complex system in a project management tool. The beginnings of this can be as simple as just writing down a checklist, for example.

Layla Pomper:00:16:48

Absolutely. Yep. I like to think of system building and systemizing your business through the lens of what, who, when, where, why those kinds of questions that you would have when you're first writing a story. And the very first starting point for anybody is what, what are we doing? And if you're listening to this podcast, you're watching the video and you're like. Of course I know what I do. I've got this, this building I'm working on, this and that and the other, you would be shocked, I have worked with, you know, well over 2000 clients at this point in time where we've gone through exercises of, Hey, write down what your business does. Um, you know, a $25 million a year e-commerce firm, we've been running it for over 20 years. They cannot list what their business actually does on a day-to-day basis. What are the things you do every month? What are the things you do every day? I can list on one hand of those thousands of clients, how many have been able to do this successfully. Uh, the average team will get about 20% of what they do accurately depicted, and the other 80% they'll slowly remember over time. So when you're thinking about systems and you're like, Hmm, what does that even mean? Where do I begin? You are absolutely right, John, where we're just looking at. What are the things that actually need to happen? A checklist, a list of tasks, a list of routines. It's a beautiful place to start

Jon Clayton:00:18:10

That is a shocking statistic that you just shared there.

Layla Pomper:00:18:14

it. So surprising.

Jon Clayton:00:18:17

oh, just that, that's just unbelievable. I say unbelievable, but it is believable, you know? Um, now that I think about it. But I'm still quite shocked by that, that there's, there's so much of the day-to-day operations of a business that people just, they don't even know what, what's going on that, you

Layla Pomper:00:18:33

Mm-hmm.

Jon Clayton:00:18:34

just seems crazy, doesn.

Layla Pomper:00:18:36

It, it is wild the amount of businesses and many listeners here probably, which are running off of our human memory, and humans, our brains aren't meant to store information long term and yet. Speaking of more statistics, because we've done so much data analysis, we know only 17% of small teams actually record what they do ever, even if it's incomplete. 17% write down anything. And so you think about that and the other 83% of small teams out there, the majority of folks that you and I know. They're memorizing what needs to be done for every client order, what memorizing what needs to be done to prepare for taxes, memorizing what needs to be done to pay for payroll. These are critical business functions that we're just carrying around in our brain, and then we're surprised if we feel stressed or overwhelmed. Our brains are not meant to store all this information. It's meant for creative work and discovering what's next.

Jon Clayton:00:19:30

I mean, if I liken it to, if we think of our brains as a computer, it's kind of like they, they should be like the, the ram that's kind of just like processing the information and then it goes off somewhere else to be stored. It's not

Layla Pomper:00:19:44

External hard drive.

Jon Clayton:00:19:46

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Extra hard drive it. It's not intended for you know, retaining all of that information to be readily accessed all the time. And I think in particular, I mean, an obvious problem that could happen here is that if you're relying on, uh, if most of your team members are relying on memory, you're self included as the founder or owner of your business, that if for whatever reason you're then absent or a, a team member leaves the business, if those. Processes are not recorded. Then you could be starting from scratch again. You could be starting from ground zero. It's like, oh, we had, um, marketing manager in the business, but they've left now and well, they did all that stuff and we don't really know actually what they did. Although we employed them, they did something. So now you new person have to now. Figure this all out yourself and, and create all of these systems again. And it's like only they'd been recorded down somewhere, not just in somebody's brain. Um, that would save a heck of a lot of time.

Layla Pomper:00:20:47

Right, and, and yet we, we think of process and systems as this like luxury. Ah, someday when my business, no, I mean, think back listeners to when your business was first started, all of the stupid mistakes you made. I know I'm not the only one who made a series of

Jon Clayton:00:21:05

I made them too. Layla?

Layla Pomper:00:21:08

I mean, the, the number of dumb things you do when you're starting in business. It's just how it goes. But you learn. And imagine going back to that state, because that's exactly what happens, John, when that situation happens where your marketing director leaves, you're back to year zero of business in that sector. Why would you ever wanna go back there? This is not a luxury, this is a necessity.

Jon Clayton:00:21:31

Absolutely. Yeah. Linda, what, what are the benefits are there then of writing down a process? You know, even as simple as a checklist. We've talked a little bit there about some of the benefits already, but are there any others that spring to mind? Have you got an interesting story about running your architecture practice? Have you done something different in your business that's been hugely successful? Or has a failure taught you an important lesson that you'd be willing to share? Then why not apply to be a guest on this podcast? Just click the link in the show notes to send us your details and get started today. And if you're joining us for the first time, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode. Now let's get back to the show.

Layla Pomper:00:22:17

I think the one that we hit on is, is a very important one. The ability to leave. I think a lot of times we think about permanent leaving, meaning, you know, someone's on, someone changes jobs, our marketing director chooses a different position, that kind of stuff. But temporary departures are also, uh, something we can support once we have systems. The ability for you as the CEO or founder or the main principal to be able to take two months off. Your team to know exactly what you were supposed to have been doing during those two months so that they could take it over. That is a beautiful thing to have. Um, we have a client who's in a manufacturing firm right now, just a team of five, but they do a lot of business and for the first time they had one of their key office managers leave for I think a two or a three week vacation. And when she was gone, they were able to cover for her. And that in and of itself unlocked a new level of business for them that. All of a sudden, vacations aren't something that you have to feel guilty about taking or stress when people are gone for because it's a known variable. But I would say the second thing, which is a little bit more on the day to day, for those of us who might not be taking long sabbaticals, is predictability. And sometimes predictability can be viewed as this boring thing, but the ability to know exactly what you need to do tomorrow to know what's important today. To know what you've already committed to do next month, on the third Thursday of the month. That kind of predictability happens as a byproduct without conscious effort. When you start tracking your actions, you know, if we know every day for 30 minutes we're answering email, we can start predicting, okay, that's a task I have coming up. It is amazing to be able to think about the future and realize, Hmm, can I take on another client? Back in the old days, you'd be guessing, I don't know, can I, can I not? When you start having processes and you start making your work visual, you can actually see, oh yeah, I can afford to take on three more clients. As long as the start dates are as follows, here's where I can delegate. Because I can predict exactly what my workload is gonna be. That transition from reactive to proactive, from surprises to predictability, frees up your creativity for so many other things.

Jon Clayton:00:24:34

I love that and I'm sure we'd all like to have more time and for creativity for other things. For sure. While you were talking, actually, I thought of another. Another benefit that could come from building the process out. And that was where you were talking about staff being able to have leave. I was thinking also about legacy and also about the value of your business, that actually by extracting this wealth of knowledge from your brain and your team's brains and documenting it all and having these. Processes all documented somewhere where people can find them, that actually that is gonna increase the value of your business. You actually have something, that's it. It's not as tied to the individual staff that you're actually building out a business that's got real tangible value to it, that it's got these assets within it. If you've got all of that information recorded, I mean that sounds like something that is a really. You know, if you were looking at an exit strategy for the future, that sounds like a really saleable business. If you've got all of that information recorded somewhere for somebody else to be able to use.

Layla Pomper:00:25:45

Exactly. Meanwhile, your competitors are selling a zero year old business that they happen to have been operating for 10 years. 'cause none of it's written down. I think one other story I'll share on that note of the saleability is a lot of folks look to pass on their business to family members or maybe you know, another business that they know or their kids, and I get emails. I don't know, probably every month at this point from children of entrepreneurs and these folks write in. I got one, I think two days ago now, and this woman wrote in and was sharing how, you know, I'm set to take over this family business. I wanna take it over, but I can't do it the way it is now. The idea of taking over this business where everything is memorized, I'd be starting from scratch with a payroll so high. It would kill me to take over this business. And so I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know if I can tell my dad, my mom, that I'm not gonna do this. I mean, exit strategies come in many different forms, and when you start to have a business brain, a team productivity system, more options are open to you. Whereas when it's just in your brain, all of a sudden you're basically selling a trap. Who wants to fall into this instead of me? And that's a lot harder to sell.

Jon Clayton:00:26:56

Yeah, I completely agree. And I mean, you wouldn't want to look inside my brain, Layla, like, you really wouldn't, don't go there. Can we talk about tool switching? Because this is something that, again, I've done this a lot in the past when I've done that sort of switching tools has it's felt like that I've been productive, that I'm like, that I'm making progress with something. Maybe I've found a new shiny tool that's gonna do something. It seems to look like it's gonna do it better than, than the last thing that I've been using. I feel like I'm being productive when I do that. Do you think that approach solves the real issues, though?

Layla Pomper:00:27:37

Yeah, I, I'm prone to this as well in different sectors of life where spending money makes you feel like you're ta making progress. It's just a human psychology thing. You are essentially gambling at that point, and sometimes you hit the jackpot and it does make a difference more often than not. Uh, those kinds of software gambles. Enri, like the house always wins as it says. And so I, I think it's not the most, uh, frugal way for us to go about growing our business. The way I like to approach investing in new software, and I think you already hit on this earlier on, is looking at the actual problem we need to solve. What is a problem that would meaningfully help our business? What would remove. A choke point or a bottleneck in how we operate. We're always slowing down when it comes to post-production on our podcast. Well, maybe that's where we could hire either a person, a robot, an AI agent, something like that to solve that bottleneck. But I think too often for small business owners particularly, we focus on the thing that we hear about the most, again, letting those marketers win. Come on, we're smarter than this. Um, rather than. Focusing on the inside out. If we really analyze our business and we say, Hmm, what is the thing that we need to fix to grow the business and go from the problem side first, we'll end up making better investments, and most often the problem side will actually reveal a process based challenge, which could again lead into people change. Automation change, software change. There's so many different directions in our system ecosystem, whereas if we just focus on the software shopping list, we're gonna end up very myopic.

Jon Clayton:00:29:24

That's a great tip. Thanks for that, Layla. For someone. That is listening to this right now, who they know that their systems need some work, but they're not sure where to start. What's one small step that they could take today?

Layla Pomper:00:29:40

I'll give you two.

Jon Clayton:00:29:42

It's

Layla Pomper:00:29:42

go over achieve.

Jon Clayton:00:29:44

I.

Layla Pomper:00:29:44

You know, step one is to start writing down mistakes that happen in your business. This is my go-to first process You build. It's a mistake resolution process. Write down the mistakes that happen in your business and make yourself a rule that you cannot cross off and say, yep, fix the mistake. Until you've also prevented it. That is one simple system that you can install that will help on so many other planes. Um, but if you're somebody who already does that or if that sounds too simple, the second thing I would do is actually check out the snapshot we talked about earlier in the intro. The systemization snapshot is a free quiz that I've created that basically goes through, here are the things that you should have. If you have strong systems, answer yes or no. Do you have those? And it'll give you a score. The reason that's a good second step is because if you answer no to those questions, spoiler alert, it's telling you the things you can do to build stronger systems. So it's a little bit more personalized than just the mistake tracking.

Jon Clayton:00:30:46

Oh, that sounds really valuable. I will make sure that we include a link to that in the show notes for this episode for sure. Later, what would be the main thing that you would like everyone to take away from our conversation today?

Layla Pomper:00:31:00

I think it's that you already have all of the business systems and processes that your business needs. You just don't call them by those words. They're your habits for how you do whatever given thing that you have, and when we're talking about building systems or systemizing your business. We are not trying to change you. We're not trying to give you something you don't already have. We're encouraging you to take those habits you have and be intentional about those habits. Create habits that actually serve you versus just the default choices that you're served up by software or the way you did it in your past job. And when we start to view view business systems as intentional habits. Recording those as a way to make them a practice rather than just a Oh, no, I guess we'll try it. Uh, that's what we're really aiming for with systemizing your business and it's not this big, scary thing that you have to wait for someday to start doing.

Jon Clayton:00:32:00

I love the way that you framed that because that now sounds far more manageable and achievable to start doing that. And as you say that a lot of this stuff, if, if you're running a business. You're running various processes anyway already. It's just that it might not be documented and it might be working from that muscle memory that you have that you're relying on in your head. And when you do start documenting those methods and those habits and steps that forming those existing systems, it's at that point when I think it's then so much easier to improve them. You know, I, I think once it's out of your head and you've got it on, on paper or on a spreadsheet, like whatever's the easiest way for you to document it, it's so much easier to be able to then optimize it and look at it and go, why am I doing it this way? Like, there's, there's 15 steps and actually I only need six, you know?

Layla Pomper:00:32:59

Yeah, and architects, I mean, that should be right up your alley, right? Your whole world is making things visual and realizing, oh wow, this could be better. Let's make sure we're making the best rendition of this, and all the choices are thought through. This is the exact same thing, but for that little thing called work that you spend the majority of your life doing, why not make it good?

Jon Clayton:00:33:21

There you go. No excuses. Everyone. We're in a good position to be able to, to tackle this for sure. Um, le was there anything else you wanted to add that we haven't already covered?

Layla Pomper:00:33:31

I think the only thing I would, I would add in here, which we kind of hit on here in this last point. Is that your process, your habits they're the internal branding of your business. So if I wanna use a building metaphor, you can think of the beautiful facade on the exterior, and that's what most people think of when they think of branding. Logos, colors, reputation, feelings. Most businesses don't build beyond the facade, but can you imagine building a home and only worrying about the front exterior? You'd be like one of those western towns, right? We wanna build out the whole house. We wanna have not just the front. Appearance of your business look beautiful, but the experience someone has when they enter your business, when they're working with you, they're working for you when they are you. That experience should be just as beautiful and aligned and thought out as the front presence and the front facade of your business and what this process stuff is. Journaling, essentially reflecting on how are we doing things and how do we wanna do them, is just about finishing what you started and making sure the internal brand is as beautiful as the outside. Uh, that's the only thing that we didn't hit on today that I would just wanna drive home, particularly for folks in this space. Oh.

Jon Clayton:00:34:47

I love that analogy. Yeah, really good. Thanks like that. There was another question I had for you and it's got nothing to do with the topic today, but I love to travel and to discover new places, and I wonder if you could just share one of your favorite places and what you love about it.

Layla Pomper:00:35:04

You know, I am actually kind of the opposite. I'm not a huge traveler. I think I got a lot of it out of my system early, but when I was thinking about my favorite place in the whole world of all places, it's my community pool. My, my favorite place to be is anywhere with a lounge chair, a book and a pool, and just sitting out and getting some reading done. And my favorite thing about community pools is that, you know, public pools, whatever you wanna call them, is that no matter where you are in the world, they're always kind of the same. It's almost like a McDonald's. It's a franchise without being a franchise of the, you know, the, the subtle sound of children playing in the background. You could hear the water, the wind, the, the trees and all that. And, um, it's just my favorite place to go and unwind. And if I'm ever having, you know, a day at work where I'm like, I've got nothing I need to work on. Like yesterday, I just duck out at 12 and I go to the pool for a few hours. And, uh, that's my favorite place in probably the whole world.

Jon Clayton:00:36:06

Oh, that sounds awesome. Um, the British weather is rather unpredictable as you, you may be aware of, um, having recently visited the uk. Um, so unfortunately, I, I don't have a community pool in my hometown, uh, but it would be lovely that we have had some, actually, some really hot weather lately and it would've been lovely to have had a pool nearby. But I, that sounds idyllic. I can sort of visualize it in my mind now and it sounds great. Cool. Well, thanks again Layla. Really appreciate you being a guest on the show, showing your expertise with everyone. Where is the best place online for people to connect with you?

Layla Pomper:00:36:44

I mainly hang out on LinkedIn. You can find me by my name, but the best place to get content and all that good stuff is over@processdriven.co. Process driven.co. That's where you can find my YouTube channel and all of this stuff that we do and so many. Free pieces of content to help you get started.

Jon Clayton:00:37:00

That's fantastic. Thanks again, Layla.

Layla Pomper:00:37:02

Thanks for having me.

Jon Clayton:00:37:05

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Architecture Business Club. If you liked this episode, think other people might enjoy it or just want to show your support for the show, then please leave a five star review or rating wherever you listen to podcasts. It would mean so much to me and it makes it easier for new listeners to discover the show. And if you haven't done so already, don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode. And if you'd like to connect with me online, you can do that on most social media platforms. Just search for @mrjonclayton. The best place to connect with me online is LinkedIn and you can find a link to my profile in the show notes. Remember running your architecture business doesn't have to be hard and you don't need to do it alone. This is Architecture Business Club.